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Alles rund um die Sondergemeinschaft Neuapostolische Kirche (NAK), die trotz bedenklicher Sonderlehren (u.a. Versiegelung, Entschlafenenwesen mit Totenmission, Totentaufe, Totenversiegelung und Totenabendmahl, Heilsnotwenigkeit der NAK-Apostel, Erstlingsschaft, ..), weiterhin "einem im Kern doch ... exklusiven Selbstverständnis", fehlendem Geschichtsbewusstsein und Aufarbeitungswillen, speziell für die Zeit des Dritten Reiches, der DDR, der Bischoffs-Botschaft ("... Ich bin der Letzte, nach mir kommt keiner mehr. ..."), sowie ihrer jüngsten Vergangenheit und unter erheblichem Unmut ehemalicher NAK-Mitglieder, auch Aussteiger genannt, die unter den missbräuchlichen Strukturen und des auf allen Ebenen ausgeprägten Laienamtes der NAK gelitten haben, weiterhin leiden und für die die NAK nach wie vor eine Sekte darstellt, im April 2019 als Gastmitglied in die ACK Deutschland aufgenommen wird.
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GG001

#71 Beitrag von GG001 » 25.03.2008, 17:39

Report of the Trustees and Audited Financial Statement for the Year Ended 31 December 2006 for New Apostolic Church United Kingdom Click!

GG001

#72 Beitrag von GG001 » 27.03.2008, 16:38

"Deaconess" hat nach dem Lesen des Berichts aus Blankenese ein trauriges Gefuehl
butterflies aren't always free...

After reading this, I have an image of a small child capturing a butterfly... pulling off a wing... a wriggling leg or two... an antenna... then setting it back down... fully expecting to watch it take flight again....
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GG001

#73 Beitrag von GG001 » 28.03.2008, 11:10

Die NAK web Seiten werden allmaehlich auch in Europa zweisprachig:

Schweiz: Englisch
http://www.nak.ch/index.php?id=161&L=3

Frankreich: eine Gemeindeseite auf Franzoesisch und Deutsch
http://e-n-a-cavalaire.fr/

GG001

#74 Beitrag von GG001 » 03.04.2008, 08:46

"HerbStroh" schreibt ueber sein Gruendonnerstags-Erlebnis:

Maundy Thursday

I would like to get back to the discussion of Maundy Thursday.

The Presbyterian church in town celebrated Maundy Thursday by presenting a play written by a monk many years ago. People dressed in period costume reenacted the Last Supper pose. Then one by one, each disciple told his story regarding encounters with Jesus. It was a wonderful way to see the perspective of each disciple, and be reminded that they were simple fisherman caught up in a miraculous time. Thomas, who both believed but questioned--can I see those characteristics in myself? Peter--fiery and passionate for Christ yet still having enough fear in his heart to deny Jesus. Judas, with his own agenda of "forcing" Jesus to become a political ruler. And each disciple asking himself, "I wonder if it is I who will betray him?" It seemed in each disciple I saw some part of myself.

At the conclusion of the play, communion was celebrated, but different from traditional practice. The pastor and several elders held bread and grape juice, and one by one each person in attendance tore off bread from the loaf and dipped in in the juice. The audience was made up of persons from many different local churches and/or the general community. Being a small town, I watched as the people who are my neighbors, fellow Rotarians, chamber of commerce members, local shop owners, and local friends received communion. It brought tears to my eyes to share communion with the very same people that share the community with me. But the highlight was when I dipped the bread--the person serving said "this is the blood of Jesus given for you, Herb." That to me brought home both the broad and quite personal gift of Jesus' sacrifice.

As the NAC struggles not only to attract new members but to remain relevant to its current membership, it would do well to look outside its own staid traditions. What may have served as sufficient communion and liturgy traditions generations ago no longer resonates with today's believers. The fact that life-long members can feel an emptiness in the celebration of communion (1) shows that the church is not assessing or meeting the needs of its constituency. It must embrace new ideas and worship traditions to bring the message of Christ to the believers of today.

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(1) Er bezieht sich auf einen Beitrag von "deaconess", die die Abendmahlspraxis in der NAC als mechanische Abfertigung wie bei einem Viehauftrieb beschrieben hat:
I can't judge anyone else's heart in the manner of which they experience communion. I only mean to criticize myself... if you have experienced what I'm saying, perhaps you'll understand. Communion for me in the New Apostolic Church quite often leaves me feeling as if I've just participated in a mechanical, regimented, orderly, cattle call. No one misses a beat in the well rehearsed, never varying ceremony. The ministers on cue, and in unison dispense and recite, "The body and blood of Jesus given for you!" as members file by. The moment just isn't conducive for reflection or savoring the Savior... for me... as "time" seems so much of the essence.
Bei den in der NAK bekannten Grossgottesdiensten und Uebertragungen waere eine feierlichere Art der Abendmahlsfeier schwierig zu realisieren, fuer den "Hausgebrauch" aber durchaus denkbar. Vielleicht muesste dann als Ausgleich die Predigt ein ganz kleines bisschen kuerzer ausfallen :wink:

Wenn man eine solche feierliche Abendmahlspraxis einmal mitgemacht hat, die einem Zeit laesst, sich mit dem "Vorgang" des Abendmahls und seiner Bedeutung zu beschaeftigen, dann versteht man besser, was "deaconess" meint.

GG001

#75 Beitrag von GG001 » 03.04.2008, 09:21

Altes Testament - Tatsache oder Fiktion?
Oder: Wer bestimmt, was "die Bibel" enthaelt - ist das eine Mehrheitsentscheidung?

"Deaconess" hat eine Ausstellung der Schriftrollen vom Qumran am Toten Meer in San Diego besucht und hat anscheinend von Eugene Ulrich (*) folgende Erklaerung erhalten:
The Qumran scrolls tell us many new and exciting things about the Scriptures. Why do I say Scriptures and not Bible? What is the difference? The Scriptures are a collection of sacred works that are considered authoritative for belief and practice within a religious community. The term "Bible," in the singular, adds the extra factor -- linked with the idea of a "canon" -- of inclusivity and exclusivity: these books are in, those books are out. From a visual perspective, the Bible is a single book with a front cover and a back cover, and a definite table of contents.

During the Qumran period, however, and more broadly during the closing centuries of the Second Temple period in Judaism, there were "volumes," not "books." Literary works were written on scrolls, not in codices. Our word "volume" comes from the Latin word volumen, "a rolled thing," from volvo, "to turn or roll." The codex, a stack of leaves or pages bound together, did not become the normal format for literary works until the third or fourth century C.E. Our early large manuscripts of the Greek Bible, for example, dating from the fourth and fifth centuries of the common era, are codices.

Thus, during the period of the Dead Sea Scrolls, the late Second Temple period, the time of Hillel and Christ, and several centuries beyond, our visual imaginations must conjure up books of the Scriptures inscribed on individual scrolls. When the pious community of the Covenant at Qumran studied the Scriptures, they unrolled individual scrolls. When Jesus stood up in the synagogue at Nazareth, the Gospel According to Luke narrates (4:16-20) that he unrolled a scroll of Isaiah -- a scroll perhaps not too different from the Great Isaiah Scroll, found entirely intact in Cave 1 at Qumran and on display at the Shrine of the Book in Jerusalem. Although the entire Bible can be printed within a single book, it was impossible to copy all the Scriptures on a single scroll. Thus, we must imagine a collection of scrolls.

Exactly how many scrolls would have been included in this collection? It may help to envision a large jar of scrolls or a shelf of scrolls. Then, just as now, the precise list of books which were considered "Scripture" vaired from group to group. Which scrolls belonged in the jar? Which were relegated to outside the jar? Which scrolls were to be shelved on the main shelf of "Scripture," as opposed to the lower shelf marked (proleptically) "Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha"? We have no clear evidence that anyone was explicitly asking these questions yet. To be sure, the Samaritans seem to have settled conservatively on the five books of Moses alone as their authoritative Scriptures. But what appears to have been the dominant view -- shared by the Pharisees, the Qumran community, and the early Christians -- included the Prophets as well.
Sie fragt sich dann: "I wonder if an opportunity would ever arise again to revote as new scripture becomes available... ?

Something to ponder re. the Apocrypha. How does one justify the exclusion of the Apocrypha, yet it is quoted in the NT? (Thinking of James quoting Enoch.)"

(*) Ueber Eugene Ulrich:
"No one is better equipped than Eugene Ulrich to write on the origins and development of the biblical text. Over the last twenty years he has been the driving force behind the publication of the biblical scrolls from Cave 4 and has himself published much of the new evidence that has changed the scholarly understanding of the origins and history of the Hebrew and teh Greek Bible as well as our understanding of the canonical process. (...)

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Tatyana

#76 Beitrag von Tatyana » 03.04.2008, 17:23

Ist doch eigentlich eine superspannende Frage: wer bestimmt, was wir lesen (und glauben) dürfen? Nicht nur, was in der Zusammenstellung "Bibel" enthalten ist, ist wichtig, manchmal ist vielleicht tatsächlich wichtiger, was weggelassen wurde-und warum.

GG001

#77 Beitrag von GG001 » 18.04.2008, 22:56

http://nacboard.yuku.com/topic/3295/t/New-Hymnals.html

New Apostolic Church USA

Music

April 15, 2008

Dear Brothers and Sisters.

With the sanction and blessing of our Chief Apostle Leber and all District Apostles of English speaking districts, it is with great pleasure that we present to you our New English Hymnal. This new hymnal is an international initiative for the English speaking congregations and will replace our current congregational hymnal of 22 years. (more ...)

Ab 11. Mai soll aus den neuen Buechern gesungen werden. Jedes aktive Mitglied soll eines bekommen, die Zahl der Buecher wurde streng mathematisch ermittelt:
The quantities you should expect to receive were calculated as follows:

Average Sunday Total Attendance for all of 2007 x 140% (the extra 40% is your altar and guest supply)

In addition, these numbers were reviewed by your district leaders and approved or, in some cases, slightly adjusted for known changes in attendance results going into 2008.

GG001

#78 Beitrag von GG001 » 21.04.2008, 09:19

"Shaquille" schreibt ueber die biblischen Berichte, wie Menschen den Hl. Geist empfangen haben:
"Laying on of Hands"
04/03/2008 19:50

Many, many pages ago I posted the following on the issue of receiving the HS which I don't think was ever responded to:

"...a full analysis requires we consider instances in which the Spirit was received without laying on of hands. Acts 10:44-48 and 11:15-17 recalls that at the home of Cornelius while Paul was speaking the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message "[f]or they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God." (Acts 10:46). Interestingly, they were baptized after sealing, also contrary to current practice. (Acts 10:48 ).

There are a number of instances in which the Spirit came upon or was present in believers without apostlic intervention. At Pentecost, all of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in tongues as the Spirit enabled them. (Acts 2:4). Scripture reports that Zacharias was "filled with the Holy Spirit and prophesized" (Luke 1:67); about Elizabeth that when Mary greeted her the baby leaped in her womb and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit(Luke 1:41); that John the Baptist would be "filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth" (Luke 1:15); that Simeon was a man righteous and devoted and the Holy Spirit was upon him (Luke 2:25-26). Paul received the Holy Spirit by laying on of hands by Ananias,(Acts 9:17), but there appears no direct evidence that he/she was an apostle.

Along with the above, add in scriptural references which infer no apparent sealing. For example, Acts 6:3-6 recounts the decision to select seven men to assist with the distribution of food, and that they chose Stephen, "a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit. They presented these to the apostles, who prayed and laid their hands on them." Thus, Stephen appeared to possess the Spirit before hands were laid upon him. In Ephesians 1:13 Paul writes: "And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of trust, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance." This at a time when Paul had not yet visited Ephesus.

Then we must consider the statements and teachings of Jesus regarding the Spirit in which determination and belief leads to the gift of the Spirit. In John 7:37-39 Jesus stood and said in a loud voice: "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him. By this he meant the Spirit, who those who believed in him were later to receive." Jesus also said, as reported in Luke 11:11-13: "Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead?...If you then through you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"

Finally, there are statements made by the first apostles that support the contention that the Spirit will come to those who believe and long for Him. At Pentecost Peter states: "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (Acts 2:38 ). Peter before the Sanhedrin states in Acts 5:32: "We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him." Paul writes to the Galatians at 3:1-2: "You foolish Galatians!...Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?" And Paul to the Romans at 10:9-10 describing salvation without reference to sealing: "That if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

Rather than finding evidence of a common practice of sealing, scripture shows that the instances reported in Acts 8 and 19 are the aberration rather than the rule. And yet the NAC takes these two instances and builds upon them an exclusivist and unyielding doctrine concerning dispensation of the Spirit."

At the very least, the NAC needs to conceed that the Spirit may indwell a person in many different ways. But to support its theology of "Jesus through apostles leads us" it must contend that God has set down this one and only means to His Spirit. Frankly, the church would have far more credibility in the general Christian community if it could at least recognize that God can, in fact, save the world without apostles.
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Stammapaostel Leber:
There are also today many attempts, to come to possess the Holy Spirit in different ways. One believes that it does not necessarily have to come through an apostle. It can also happen this or that way, that one is filled with the Holy Spirit. The event with the magician Simon relayed in the Acts of the Apostles makes certain: There is no substitute way. It cannot happen. One cannot possess the Holy Spirit or its gifts or remit it in any other manner. This is and remains a matter of the apostles' ministry.

organa

#79 Beitrag von organa » 21.04.2008, 11:18

Lukas 11, 11-13 hat geschrieben:If you then through you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"
versus
Stammapostel Leber hat geschrieben:One cannot possess the Holy Spirit or its gifts or remit it in any other manner. This is and remains a matter of the apostles' ministry.
Sorry -
ich konnte dieser wunderbaren Gegenüberstellung nicht widerstehen.
Damit dürfte klar sein, daß nach wie vor aus neuap. Sicht "die anderen" weder Hl. Geist, noch "Elemente von Hl. Geist" noch sonstwas haben.
Alles bleibt gut.

shalom
Beiträge: 4295
Registriert: 11.12.2007, 16:41

#80 Beitrag von shalom » 21.04.2008, 17:05

...merci für diese "Zusammenschau" einer neuen Botschaft in traditioneller "manner" des neuap. Stammapostelamtes.

Manner Gottes :wink:

shalom

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